tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5026371576776124368.post4646107933803281579..comments2024-01-30T06:25:31.530+13:00Comments on The Wars of Pooch: Valleycon 2012 with Valentines- A ReportChrishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07746496591351069177noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5026371576776124368.post-26601231017311996502012-02-01T15:16:13.938+13:002012-02-01T15:16:13.938+13:00Exactly right Craig! They are guys who take stuff ...Exactly right Craig! They are guys who take stuff because it is cool, not for game effectiveness. Which is why I have no problem with them doing it!<br /><br />The train and fort are.. interesting. The fort bothers me because it looks wrong, the train looks awesomely cool!Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07746496591351069177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5026371576776124368.post-59108367568160233942012-01-31T17:46:56.877+13:002012-01-31T17:46:56.877+13:00Good point Pooch- I've played the Stanton'...Good point Pooch- I've played the Stanton's several times and always had fun games- powergamey has never been something I'd accuse the lists I've faced from them of being.Craig Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14592543210821530318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5026371576776124368.post-78969862411462846562012-01-31T10:09:57.803+13:002012-01-31T10:09:57.803+13:00Silliness is good!
Halftracks and Recon are very ...Silliness is good!<br /><br />Halftracks and Recon are very very cool. That is without a doubt! Alas, next tourney will be tanks for me....Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07746496591351069177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5026371576776124368.post-9423285399625479022012-01-31T10:05:19.391+13:002012-01-31T10:05:19.391+13:00Lol - I have no problem with silliness - look at s...Lol - I have no problem with silliness - look at some of my favourite games. <br /><br />It just seems that there is a bit of a melding of genres going on - I never liked those prepacked Jam+Peanut Butter things they trialed when I was a kid.... <br /><br />My answer to stodgy heavy tanks or inf with heavy tanks is the Ironman Challenge: Ironmen run mech inf and recon (and tanks, if you want 'associate' membership). Back to basics FOW. <br /><br />Now must paint the HTs!Jamiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17369646895032210867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5026371576776124368.post-7966375165472909132012-01-31T09:54:19.552+13:002012-01-31T09:54:19.552+13:00The fort is... Interesting. It bothers me more tha...The fort is... Interesting. It bothers me more than the train, but any advantage it offers is negated by the rubbish troops it contains! I found the game vs the fort to be absolutely fine and fun, Mark and I had an enjoyable game! Equally, I have no doubts his brother Andrew had any complaints about someone gaming vs the train.<br /><br />The Train is actually just really cool. Having seen it in action, it is not game breaking, and can be countered very easily, but it is something that adds to the game, rather than detracts.<br /><br />Both the fort and the train are not armies for "Power Gamers"- they are not strong lists on the whole. Yes there are more powerful ways of making armies with those things in them- but there are other lists which are much more problematic!<br /><br />3 of the top 5 at valleycon were built around heavy tanks for example? Matildas, Valentines and Char B's are all very tough to deal with for the average infantryman.<br /><br />Yes. Yes there are silly things in FOW. There are things for power gamers to abuse, there are things for people to have fun. Fundamentally? I think it is about the right attitude to gaming, which is why I have no problem with guys like the Stantons bringing Trains and Forts, because they are fun guys to game against, and I have only ever had fun games against them.<br /><br />Then again, I don't enjoy people playing supid powergamey lists. See my rant about Flamescon!Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07746496591351069177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5026371576776124368.post-78309267253607341332012-01-31T09:34:55.787+13:002012-01-31T09:34:55.787+13:00I wouldn't muddle 'power-gamers' into ...I wouldn't muddle 'power-gamers' into this. That is, I think the concern is not that they are 'too good', more that they are 'silly' - they seem to stretch that suspension of disbelief, that points-build games require, just that bit further. <br /><br />To me, what sticks out like a sore thumb about Forts and Trains is that they are more like Terrain and look really jarring sometimes - see above photo of the desert fort amongst the green grass and fir trees! <br /><br />I agree with Craig - things like heaps of Churchills (which I think is Stephan's IINO ref) in support of infantry used to be something promoted through scenarios and for a while there we still got specific scenarios in our LW-Battlebooks. We still regularly use one of them (Breakthrough Assault) in tournaments. <br /><br />Still - as you say - fun, and I do recognise and agree with that. GW produces very popular games and they are full of that kind of cool and odd 'army centerpiece model', they call it. I like their giant armoured spider, with goblin riders. :)Jamiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17369646895032210867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5026371576776124368.post-40187619665372955002012-01-31T09:19:06.496+13:002012-01-31T09:19:06.496+13:00Have to agree with Stephen S on the power gamers.
...Have to agree with Stephen S on the power gamers.<br /> I only took the fort as Valley-con has a very relaxed gaming atmosphere in my opinion, and I expected most of the players wouldn't of minded so much in me taking a different list to the ordinary. I fail to see why it wouldnt be enjoyable to play against ?<br />Sure I could of annoyed a few select people in the taking it, but that could of been said about anything in this game of FOW we play, a good example is a full on Maltida army in EW or Kingtiger and Elephant units in a Panzerspah list that was used for LWGT recently.<br />Seeing as the EW Vichy French army can legally take a desert fort in their list, I can see no reason why a garrison force can not be used for EW tournaments - and lets not forget that you have to take the fort to even get up to 1500points.<br />As you say, I would never take myself to seriously when using a fort (or train) and would have a fun approach to war-gaming when using it especially for a local little tourney like Valleycon.<br />Cheers MarkAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5026371576776124368.post-80249237648764450622012-01-30T22:52:20.149+13:002012-01-30T22:52:20.149+13:00You can never have to many Vals Jamie.
Fully agre...You can never have to many Vals Jamie.<br /><br />Fully agree re MW- the final version of MW (4.0?) has fixed most of the silliness and rorts. <br /><br />CraigCraig Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14592543210821530318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5026371576776124368.post-12591248918480564522012-01-30T18:00:52.188+13:002012-01-30T18:00:52.188+13:00Things like the forts and trains are unlikely to a...Things like the forts and trains are unlikely to appear in many "serious games" unless the player is really just having fun. They have just too many liabilities.<br />Like any wargames rules the "power gamers" do more to spoil the game than the designers ever do. FoW works well and allows lots of sillyness if you want to do it, if all you want to field is a list which is legal (IINO for example) but not exactly "standard" you are perfectly able to do that as well.<br />Loved the write up Poochie, makes me think I should do more gaming than organising.Stephen Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08906294795357399570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5026371576776124368.post-58715953979880981212012-01-30T16:20:40.699+13:002012-01-30T16:20:40.699+13:00I know what you mean Craig - had a look @ Andy'...I know what you mean Craig - had a look @ Andy's Grey Wolf with the armoured train and my reaction was: do we really need that in our generic company level battles? It's gotten very Warhammerish. Hopefully they continue to leave MW alone. <br /><br />Nice report Poochie and well done on third place. I recognise many of the names so I guess they are supposed to be good and the level of opposition was high? Do you think the 'funny' matchups are just an oddity due to not all lists being out yet? Valentines are cool tanks - you WIP almost made me want to make a Tankovy of them. <br /><br />CheersJamiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17369646895032210867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5026371576776124368.post-49683731387174457332012-01-30T12:33:47.883+13:002012-01-30T12:33:47.883+13:00Great report Pooch, wellldone- you even remembered...Great report Pooch, wellldone- you even remembered to get some photos! <br /><br />Looks like ahistorical matchups in EW can lead to some very amusing results- game 2 for instance. The fort looked cool but is stuff like forts and armoured trains really adding to the enjoyment of the game or would they be better for scenario type games? This game is getting stranger and stranger. <br /><br />CraigCraig Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14592543210821530318noreply@blogger.com